jainGC
09-10 01:04 AM
Hi All,
Its been astonishing journey, came to US in 2000 June, saw downfall of .coms followed by Housing bubble burst, than 911 , than Economical challenges, Job losses, etc.... the irony list are/were endless. Hope of GC was next to impossible.
Following were the steps to miracle :
- Filed Labor in 2005 Dec, got denied due to lawyers mistake:mad:
- Refiled the same application and Got approved in March 2006:D
- Applied I-140, paid extra for premium but it took more than 4 months to approve.:mad:
- Fight with employer, left company overnite, guess when ?(2 weeks before July Fiasco :mad:)
- Refilled labor in Jan 2008, Got approved in March 2008
- RFE on previously approved I-140
- Convinced lawyers to file application for I-140 , requesting PD recapturing.
- Got I-140 Approval in Aug 2008
- Filed I-485 in Aug 2008
- FP in Oct 2008
- RFE in Aug 2009
- Contacted Congressman, it was helpful as got to know the exact situation.
- Took infopass 2 times
- Not sure if this helped or not but called 1-800 number and spoke with level 2 officer and she hinted that I may not have to wait that long ?
- Approval in Sep 2010
Thanks to IV, it was immensely helpful.
Its been astonishing journey, came to US in 2000 June, saw downfall of .coms followed by Housing bubble burst, than 911 , than Economical challenges, Job losses, etc.... the irony list are/were endless. Hope of GC was next to impossible.
Following were the steps to miracle :
- Filed Labor in 2005 Dec, got denied due to lawyers mistake:mad:
- Refiled the same application and Got approved in March 2006:D
- Applied I-140, paid extra for premium but it took more than 4 months to approve.:mad:
- Fight with employer, left company overnite, guess when ?(2 weeks before July Fiasco :mad:)
- Refilled labor in Jan 2008, Got approved in March 2008
- RFE on previously approved I-140
- Convinced lawyers to file application for I-140 , requesting PD recapturing.
- Got I-140 Approval in Aug 2008
- Filed I-485 in Aug 2008
- FP in Oct 2008
- RFE in Aug 2009
- Contacted Congressman, it was helpful as got to know the exact situation.
- Took infopass 2 times
- Not sure if this helped or not but called 1-800 number and spoke with level 2 officer and she hinted that I may not have to wait that long ?
- Approval in Sep 2010
Thanks to IV, it was immensely helpful.
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reddyram
08-18 11:31 PM
my case got approved few days ago . CPO , P Decision Acitivty etc still expected.
krishmunn
04-07 10:47 AM
I guess, we need to hire, one octopus for every months' prediction. That will be cheaper, instead of we put our brain in predictions.
People are not contributing for Advocacy day and they will contribute to hire the octopus ?? :rolleyes:
People are not contributing for Advocacy day and they will contribute to hire the octopus ?? :rolleyes:
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RattuRani
06-18 03:46 PM
Natives blame Naturalized citizens/GC Holders/H1s/L1s for taking their job
Naturalized Citizens/GC Holders blame H1s/L1s for taking their job
H1 holders blame L1s for taking their job
L1s blame ImmigrationVoice members for taking their job:D
Naturalized Citizens/GC Holders blame H1s/L1s for taking their job
H1 holders blame L1s for taking their job
L1s blame ImmigrationVoice members for taking their job:D
more...
SunnySurya
08-07 11:42 AM
Good for you..
People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...
I was not planning to file for EB2, but after all this hoopla you have created, I got highly motivated. I am going ahead with it. I don't know your PD, I hope, really hope it is later then 5/04 as I will interfile to EB2... very soon.....stop me if you can!!!
GCCovet
People yet another case who is going to crossover to the EB2 line...
I was not planning to file for EB2, but after all this hoopla you have created, I got highly motivated. I am going ahead with it. I don't know your PD, I hope, really hope it is later then 5/04 as I will interfile to EB2... very soon.....stop me if you can!!!
GCCovet
vishwak
03-29 09:04 AM
I read the news too at The Oh Law Firm (http://www.immigration-law.com/)
Hope this hold and comes true. All the best to my brothers and me.
Hope this hold and comes true. All the best to my brothers and me.
more...
pareshtyagi
09-14 04:45 PM
Several people on the forum seem to be getting fingerprint notices, EAD, AP etc. in mail.
I am one of the few July 2nd filer who has not seen any activity on my case yet..no checks cashed, no 485 receipt, no EAD etc. etc.
I am just trying to guage as to how many of us July 2nd filers are in this boat.... my 140 was approved from TSC, 485 was mailed to NSC..
Application received by J. Barrett 10.25 am July 2nd
I am waiting for the activity too. My application reached nebraska July 2nd 9.01 AM. Still no response.
I am one of the few July 2nd filer who has not seen any activity on my case yet..no checks cashed, no 485 receipt, no EAD etc. etc.
I am just trying to guage as to how many of us July 2nd filers are in this boat.... my 140 was approved from TSC, 485 was mailed to NSC..
Application received by J. Barrett 10.25 am July 2nd
I am waiting for the activity too. My application reached nebraska July 2nd 9.01 AM. Still no response.
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royus77
06-29 05:08 PM
Heard the same from my lawyer, she has changed her tune completely in 2 days. Now she says that she is hearing the same thing and is possible. They are working through the weekend and has asked me to keep my blackberry on me at all times as they will be providing emails updates every 4 hours or if and when the said bulletin is released.
Will USICS will release on the weekend?If they have any thing it should be today or they will do it on monday evening . They will do it on monday so that they are safe and cover their skin ( always say they received 100000 Applications and they are good enough for the dates to go back)
Will USICS will release on the weekend?If they have any thing it should be today or they will do it on monday evening . They will do it on monday so that they are safe and cover their skin ( always say they received 100000 Applications and they are good enough for the dates to go back)
more...
Macaca
12-05 03:59 PM
JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, Lou, you�ve been well known for years now, especially dealing with the issue of American corporations exporting jobs and criticizing that whole process of exporting American jobs overseas.
LOU DOBBS: Sure.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And your�but also the criticism of it, that as I�ve seen it as, oftentimes does not deal with the impact so much of what this globalization on those countries themselves. In other words, you criticize NAFTA for sending so many jobs overseas, but not with the impact so much that it�s having on Mexico and on these other countries that are the other end of this free trade.
LOU DOBBS: Juan, that may be because I�m a television journalist, limited in my intellect, as well as my time.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, on this show, we don�t have commercials, so we have a lot of time to get into the issues.
LOU DOBBS: The reality is that, of course, NAFTA is, in my judgment, at least deleterious to the interests of the Mexican people and to the state of Mexico. One only has to look at the empty villages in particularly southern Mexico to examine the impact of the agricultural policies within NAFTA. One only has to look at the maquiladoras across northern Mexico to see the impact on a society that is already 50% impoverished, education levels still where they were thirty years ago in Mexico.
But my perspective is an American one. And I won�t presume to speak for Mexico, as Felipe Calderon does presume to speak to the United States for Americans on American policy. The reality is that NAFTA doesn�t work for this country. It doesn�t work for Mexico.
But I am not one of those people�as Amy was talking about, my detractors. The suggestion I�m anti-immigrant, for example, is absurd. I would support an increase in lawful immigration and have said so repeatedly and have no problem whatsoever with current levels of immigration, which, by the way, are the highest levels of immigration in the world�in fact, more than the rest of the world combined. We bring in more than two million people. But the issue is one that the United States does not have a foreign policy toward Mexico. We�re paternalistic and condescending toward Mexico in our dealings with Mexico, both corporately and politically. And it�s time for that to change.
LOU DOBBS: Sure.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And your�but also the criticism of it, that as I�ve seen it as, oftentimes does not deal with the impact so much of what this globalization on those countries themselves. In other words, you criticize NAFTA for sending so many jobs overseas, but not with the impact so much that it�s having on Mexico and on these other countries that are the other end of this free trade.
LOU DOBBS: Juan, that may be because I�m a television journalist, limited in my intellect, as well as my time.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, on this show, we don�t have commercials, so we have a lot of time to get into the issues.
LOU DOBBS: The reality is that, of course, NAFTA is, in my judgment, at least deleterious to the interests of the Mexican people and to the state of Mexico. One only has to look at the empty villages in particularly southern Mexico to examine the impact of the agricultural policies within NAFTA. One only has to look at the maquiladoras across northern Mexico to see the impact on a society that is already 50% impoverished, education levels still where they were thirty years ago in Mexico.
But my perspective is an American one. And I won�t presume to speak for Mexico, as Felipe Calderon does presume to speak to the United States for Americans on American policy. The reality is that NAFTA doesn�t work for this country. It doesn�t work for Mexico.
But I am not one of those people�as Amy was talking about, my detractors. The suggestion I�m anti-immigrant, for example, is absurd. I would support an increase in lawful immigration and have said so repeatedly and have no problem whatsoever with current levels of immigration, which, by the way, are the highest levels of immigration in the world�in fact, more than the rest of the world combined. We bring in more than two million people. But the issue is one that the United States does not have a foreign policy toward Mexico. We�re paternalistic and condescending toward Mexico in our dealings with Mexico, both corporately and politically. And it�s time for that to change.
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abhis0
09-27 04:43 PM
Right now checked my bank account and all 6 checks (for me and wife) cashed. All receipt numbers are at the back of the check. AsI was expecting the package was transferred to Texas.
All receipt numbers start with SRC******
This is the happiest day since July 17 for us....
I am very very hopeful that you guys will get it. Check your bacnk too today.
Do you think USCIS came to know about your "List compilation" activity and hence your receipt......I think I should take over list compilation now :p
Happy for you man...
All receipt numbers start with SRC******
This is the happiest day since July 17 for us....
I am very very hopeful that you guys will get it. Check your bacnk too today.
Do you think USCIS came to know about your "List compilation" activity and hence your receipt......I think I should take over list compilation now :p
Happy for you man...
more...
shouldIwait
05-10 05:37 PM
Few responses to Mr. Hunter.
I'm not blind to stereotyping in this forum or elsewhere. It's not you vs. them kinda thing. You ARE stereotyping based upon some TRUE things but it is still stereotyping, isn't it.
Also, you understood some of my comments wrong. All I was saying is that due to big ISV's like TCS/INFY/WIPRO and mushrooms of bodyshops the actual worker gets pennies on a dollar and they keep the booty. So it's not the worker who causes wage depression it's the circumvention of the spirit of law that these companies do which causes it. I say "spirit of law" because they still stay within the legal framework. As far as offshoring is concerned it's a big discussion in itself and forces of capitalism and globalization are at work. None of us can prevent that but we can counter it by moving up in the value chain.
The scenario you described about modus operandi of big Indian ISV's is 100% correct but to generally imply that Indians are 1/5th as good as Americans when it comes to IT (50 member team vs. 10-12 member team) is a supremacist attitude and completely untrue.
It is true that the Indian counterparts are usually of much younger age but rarely substandard for the job. Companies realize that IT is no-longer considered rocket-science and they can save a few bucks. Try to think objectively keeping personal impact aside.
Now regarding overall economic input of immigrants there are issues broader and larger than you mentioned. Some of the smaller points you mentioned are true but you are completely missing the big picture. We can discuss that in a different thread :)
When Bill Gates says best-and-brightest it applies to individuals and not a VISA category, he's not lying. Among the 65K every year you'll find people from all skill levels, cream-of-the-cream to just-about-ok, and a few rotten-apples too. The immigration system is not designed to test skill level. Overall it's old, irrelevant and doesn't help anyone. It needs to be re-designed but unfortunately people are divided on fake lines and ignore the real issues or rather real solutions.
Although you have said it differently but you are right that solution to mine and your problems lie at the same spot, a modern, common-sense, immigration system that promotes best-and-the-brightest (Indian and American) and discourages exploitation.
I'm not blind to stereotyping in this forum or elsewhere. It's not you vs. them kinda thing. You ARE stereotyping based upon some TRUE things but it is still stereotyping, isn't it.
Also, you understood some of my comments wrong. All I was saying is that due to big ISV's like TCS/INFY/WIPRO and mushrooms of bodyshops the actual worker gets pennies on a dollar and they keep the booty. So it's not the worker who causes wage depression it's the circumvention of the spirit of law that these companies do which causes it. I say "spirit of law" because they still stay within the legal framework. As far as offshoring is concerned it's a big discussion in itself and forces of capitalism and globalization are at work. None of us can prevent that but we can counter it by moving up in the value chain.
The scenario you described about modus operandi of big Indian ISV's is 100% correct but to generally imply that Indians are 1/5th as good as Americans when it comes to IT (50 member team vs. 10-12 member team) is a supremacist attitude and completely untrue.
It is true that the Indian counterparts are usually of much younger age but rarely substandard for the job. Companies realize that IT is no-longer considered rocket-science and they can save a few bucks. Try to think objectively keeping personal impact aside.
Now regarding overall economic input of immigrants there are issues broader and larger than you mentioned. Some of the smaller points you mentioned are true but you are completely missing the big picture. We can discuss that in a different thread :)
When Bill Gates says best-and-brightest it applies to individuals and not a VISA category, he's not lying. Among the 65K every year you'll find people from all skill levels, cream-of-the-cream to just-about-ok, and a few rotten-apples too. The immigration system is not designed to test skill level. Overall it's old, irrelevant and doesn't help anyone. It needs to be re-designed but unfortunately people are divided on fake lines and ignore the real issues or rather real solutions.
Although you have said it differently but you are right that solution to mine and your problems lie at the same spot, a modern, common-sense, immigration system that promotes best-and-the-brightest (Indian and American) and discourages exploitation.
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anotherone
01-29 05:33 PM
ok this is what I have
a) email with offer of employment and link to I9 form in offer letter
b) accepted verbally
c) background check done and report sent to me
d) called and was chatting when I mentioned EAD, was told sorry we cant offer you employment due to EAD, and that is has to EAD filed by this company only because they cant verify its legality et., one way was for them to do my h1b but they are not hiring h1b right now, so sorry. later they said they would consult with legal and get back to me. however i dont hold out much hope
e) i immediately filled out the i9 form
f) wrote email to them outlining our conversation from d) explaining my surprise (and boy! was a surprised!) and trying to make my case that I was not a risky bet for the company because of how interminably long I have been in this country and my spouse had GC already, but mine was not processed in time before priority date became not current.
g) hr wrote back, acknowledging our conversation and saying that they were not sure and that is why they were going to consult with their legal dept and will talk next week.
All I have are emails and offer letter.
I really dont want to go the legal complaining route if this can be resolved. But I am in a fighting mode. I probably would not have been so upset if I had not turned down other interviews...
a) email with offer of employment and link to I9 form in offer letter
b) accepted verbally
c) background check done and report sent to me
d) called and was chatting when I mentioned EAD, was told sorry we cant offer you employment due to EAD, and that is has to EAD filed by this company only because they cant verify its legality et., one way was for them to do my h1b but they are not hiring h1b right now, so sorry. later they said they would consult with legal and get back to me. however i dont hold out much hope
e) i immediately filled out the i9 form
f) wrote email to them outlining our conversation from d) explaining my surprise (and boy! was a surprised!) and trying to make my case that I was not a risky bet for the company because of how interminably long I have been in this country and my spouse had GC already, but mine was not processed in time before priority date became not current.
g) hr wrote back, acknowledging our conversation and saying that they were not sure and that is why they were going to consult with their legal dept and will talk next week.
All I have are emails and offer letter.
I really dont want to go the legal complaining route if this can be resolved. But I am in a fighting mode. I probably would not have been so upset if I had not turned down other interviews...
more...
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Saralayar
01-04 11:16 PM
Hello every one,
I am starting this thread for all of us not to just think about the GC process. If any one is residing here for 10 years without GC, think about making a law which can lead us to Citizenship. My thoughts on this:
Many of our colleagues who landed with us during the late 90s (1998, 1999) and early 2000, who got their GC without any issues are now Citizens or waiting to become Citizen soon.
What is our status?. Just think. Still we are strugling to get the GC. Even by law change, if we are getting the GC this year (by GOD's Grace), then we need to wait for another 5 years from now (approximately 2014). Many persons like me who have come to this Country in their later career will be very much affected due to this delay (we have lot of other issues like the dependents reaching the age of 21 etc., College, University fees etc.,).
Core team and every one, please consider this and try to lobby for getting the citizenship without further wait if the persons satisfy the folowing conditions:
1. If they are legally here for 10 years (With approved I-140 and waiting for Adjustment of Status without current date).
2. If they have earned full 40 points in Social Security
3. If they have paid the tax continuously for 10 years
4. If they own a house and paying Mortgage (adding weightage to the Economy boost)
and
5. If they do not have any criminal records in these 10 years.
Please again do not just concentrate on the GC issues. Consider this and if any one can come with a letter draft with legal openion, we can send it to all Congress members, State Governers etc.,
Hope the members and the Core team consider this issue. I have one more thread on this, which I started some months back but the response was not that good. If every one of us unite on this and raise this to the Congress, I think the new Government may consider as this is very genuine.
I am starting this thread for all of us not to just think about the GC process. If any one is residing here for 10 years without GC, think about making a law which can lead us to Citizenship. My thoughts on this:
Many of our colleagues who landed with us during the late 90s (1998, 1999) and early 2000, who got their GC without any issues are now Citizens or waiting to become Citizen soon.
What is our status?. Just think. Still we are strugling to get the GC. Even by law change, if we are getting the GC this year (by GOD's Grace), then we need to wait for another 5 years from now (approximately 2014). Many persons like me who have come to this Country in their later career will be very much affected due to this delay (we have lot of other issues like the dependents reaching the age of 21 etc., College, University fees etc.,).
Core team and every one, please consider this and try to lobby for getting the citizenship without further wait if the persons satisfy the folowing conditions:
1. If they are legally here for 10 years (With approved I-140 and waiting for Adjustment of Status without current date).
2. If they have earned full 40 points in Social Security
3. If they have paid the tax continuously for 10 years
4. If they own a house and paying Mortgage (adding weightage to the Economy boost)
and
5. If they do not have any criminal records in these 10 years.
Please again do not just concentrate on the GC issues. Consider this and if any one can come with a letter draft with legal openion, we can send it to all Congress members, State Governers etc.,
Hope the members and the Core team consider this issue. I have one more thread on this, which I started some months back but the response was not that good. If every one of us unite on this and raise this to the Congress, I think the new Government may consider as this is very genuine.
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ramus
01-11 06:36 AM
This thread need to be on top.
more...
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drona
07-11 01:40 PM
That's brilliant glus! What was your message? I hope he read it.
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ashshef
09-24 04:15 PM
"7% country speciific limit for primary applicants" and "2% country specific dependent limit" is mentioned in every bulletin published so far and so actually it is 9% limit - country specific together.
But question is " what is the meaning of it?" and "How to read it?"
Now the tables what are published in bulletin and we smash our heads daily on them are meant for "Visa number availability" not for "Physical Green card orderering".
So numbers (28.6% divided by 5 per each preference-country) are meant for USCIS to process and assign visa numbers till that limit reached.
"7% + 2%" country specific limit is meant for "Sending Greencard /Ordering Greencard".
In simplest form, EB-I will have 8008 X 3 (Without spilied over) = 24024 applications assigned Visa number this year and out of that ( 9% X 140000 = 12600) lucky ones will get their physical green cards THIS YEAR. The rest will get their physical green cards next year though their files have been assigned numbers (Pre-adjudicated.) this year.
Above mentioned explanation is the real meaning of this bullshit.
calculating and interpreting 0.07 x 0.286 for particular country is a wrong concept and I know millions of us follow that in their analysis and arguments but that is completely wrong.
I don't get how you are getting the 8008 figure. Based on the 9%, you are right about the cap for any country being 12,600 for all EB categories combined.
Pre-adjudication has nothing to do with country quota. And 'assigning a number' is still based on country quota. With all the pre-adjudication, it is likely that 'assigned numbers' = GC approvals. The 'assigned numbers' concept was a lot more relevant till last year, when they had numbers, but still had to 'process' the applications. Now most applications seem to have been 'pre-processed'(pre-adjudicated)
I do appreciate your work. Just trying to help achieve a more accurate figure.
But question is " what is the meaning of it?" and "How to read it?"
Now the tables what are published in bulletin and we smash our heads daily on them are meant for "Visa number availability" not for "Physical Green card orderering".
So numbers (28.6% divided by 5 per each preference-country) are meant for USCIS to process and assign visa numbers till that limit reached.
"7% + 2%" country specific limit is meant for "Sending Greencard /Ordering Greencard".
In simplest form, EB-I will have 8008 X 3 (Without spilied over) = 24024 applications assigned Visa number this year and out of that ( 9% X 140000 = 12600) lucky ones will get their physical green cards THIS YEAR. The rest will get their physical green cards next year though their files have been assigned numbers (Pre-adjudicated.) this year.
Above mentioned explanation is the real meaning of this bullshit.
calculating and interpreting 0.07 x 0.286 for particular country is a wrong concept and I know millions of us follow that in their analysis and arguments but that is completely wrong.
I don't get how you are getting the 8008 figure. Based on the 9%, you are right about the cap for any country being 12,600 for all EB categories combined.
Pre-adjudication has nothing to do with country quota. And 'assigning a number' is still based on country quota. With all the pre-adjudication, it is likely that 'assigned numbers' = GC approvals. The 'assigned numbers' concept was a lot more relevant till last year, when they had numbers, but still had to 'process' the applications. Now most applications seem to have been 'pre-processed'(pre-adjudicated)
I do appreciate your work. Just trying to help achieve a more accurate figure.
more...
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iv_only_hope
01-15 09:11 AM
Folks,
I have encouraged ppl on and have started a thread there. Hopefully ppl will send letters.
http://www..com/discussion-forums/i485-1/58156955/last-page/
Greg Siskind is also up:
http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2008/01/immigration-voi.html
Can anyone get in touch with Sheela Murthy? She is reputed and she might post it on her website.
I have encouraged ppl on and have started a thread there. Hopefully ppl will send letters.
http://www..com/discussion-forums/i485-1/58156955/last-page/
Greg Siskind is also up:
http://blogs.ilw.com/gregsiskind/2008/01/immigration-voi.html
Can anyone get in touch with Sheela Murthy? She is reputed and she might post it on her website.
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sertasheep
07-10 07:41 PM
Solidarity from Bollywood
http://www.prlog.org/10023531-bollywood-supports-highly-skilled-workers-green-card-concerns.html
http://www.prlog.org/10023531-bollywood-supports-highly-skilled-workers-green-card-concerns.html
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sanjay
01-14 03:46 PM
Just sent my letter to WH and also IV. Also, my three friends had sent this letter to both WH and IV.
unseenguy
06-16 03:16 AM
Hi,
One of my friend is working in L1 on Informatica tool for one of the financial client.
Does it mean that his company is violationg rules?
His company is harrassing much for some personal reason and asking him to come back home country
what action he can take against his company if his company viaolating L1 rules.
Please anyone come across this situation then give us your suggestion.
Appericiate your help in advance
Can somebody reply to my question...?
He can not take any action. If they ask him to go back he has to go back. If informatica is embedded in another s/w which is company copyright then there is no technical violation of L1. Also if the project is administered by his company there is no violation of L1. If it is staff augmentation case, which does not seem to be the case here, then it could be violation of l1.
One of my friend is working in L1 on Informatica tool for one of the financial client.
Does it mean that his company is violationg rules?
His company is harrassing much for some personal reason and asking him to come back home country
what action he can take against his company if his company viaolating L1 rules.
Please anyone come across this situation then give us your suggestion.
Appericiate your help in advance
Can somebody reply to my question...?
He can not take any action. If they ask him to go back he has to go back. If informatica is embedded in another s/w which is company copyright then there is no technical violation of L1. Also if the project is administered by his company there is no violation of L1. If it is staff augmentation case, which does not seem to be the case here, then it could be violation of l1.
andy007
07-11 01:44 PM
I know it is hard to believe, but according to the tracking number below, Mr. Gonzalez signed for delivery of my flowers today.
See below:(click on view package progress)
http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?HTMLVersion=5.0&sort_by=status&tracknums_displayed=5&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&loc=en_US&AgreeToTermsAndConditions=yes&InquiryNumber1=1ZE19A16P204195432
G
No Process for you !!! Direct Green Card !!
Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!
See below:(click on view package progress)
http://wwwapps.ups.com/WebTracking/processInputRequest?HTMLVersion=5.0&sort_by=status&tracknums_displayed=5&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&loc=en_US&AgreeToTermsAndConditions=yes&InquiryNumber1=1ZE19A16P204195432
G
No Process for you !!! Direct Green Card !!
Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!
